Hetzner to stop support for High-Availability Setups

Discussion in 'Smalltalk' started by falko, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    I've heard it several times from different people now, and I've just talked to Mr. Pirner from Hetzner myself: due to security reasons Hetzner ( www.hetzner.de ) will stop support for high-availability solutions (heartbeat/keepalived etc.) in the next weeks or months. If you have a subnet with multiple IP addresses, they will bind the IP addresses to a server so that it will not be possible to have a virtual or shared IP address (as shown in my HA tutorials, e.g. http://www.howtoforge.com/high-availability-load-balancer-haproxy-heartbeat-debian-etch and http://www.howtoforge.com/haproxy_loadbalancer_debian_etch ).

    They will send out an email to all their customers in the next days, and then it will take a few weeks or months until they make the switch. Until now, they don't offer an alternative solution for people that need HA (such as HowtoForge - HowtoForge runs on an HA cluster at Hetzner), but they told me that if enough people ask for such a solution they might come up with something.

    So I'm asking everyone who currently has a HA setup at Hetzner or is interested in doing it to post here. If we are enough, hopefully we can urge Hetzner to change their minds.
  2. orcar

    orcar New Member

    I have a few customer who need the HA function and they all will ask for it.
  3. toodles

    toodles New Member

    I'm currently relying on a HA setup on 2 servers with Hetzner. I need a HA solution as the non-profit organization I represent has previously had to deal with downtime and has caused them considerable problems. HA solves and prevents these issues for them.
  4. edge

    edge Active Member Moderator

    Sorry to hear about this.
    I'm not using Hetzner, but wish you all who do good luck!
  5. toodles

    toodles New Member

  6. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    I've just signed up to the Hetzner forum. Let's see...
  7. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    I've just created a sample letter (in German) to Hetzner. I urge everyone who has a HA setup or is interested in this to fax it or send it to Hetzner:

    Hetzner Online AG
    Industriestr. 6
    91710 Gunzenhausen

    Fax +49 [0] 9831 61006-2

    Edit: I've just added a version in Word format as well. I'm trying to get an English version prepared as well.

    Edit [2]: Thanks to toodles we now also have English sample letters. :)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  8. Smirnov

    Smirnov New Member

    I have two servers from Hetzner as well. I was pretty upset when I found out they stopped HA service. I hope they give it back to us soon or it might be time to look for other companies.
  9. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    I've just updated my HA tutorials and added a link to this thread to make sure people know about this problem before they order a Hetzner server.
  10. Dmagnets

    Dmagnets New Member

    Does anyone know roughly what proportion of hosts allow this type of virtual IP set up? Is it common or rare for it to be allowed?

    Also, what is the best way of asking a prospective host if it is possible, to minimise the chances of misunderstanding. It'd be a nightmare to pay for hosting and then find it can't be done when you thought it could.

    Thanks for the haproxy tutorial. :)
  11. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    Out of the three hosters I've worked with (Hetzner, 1&1, Strato), only Hetzner allowed it. I guess it's a rare feature. :(

    I'd ask if they support HA setups (e.g. with heartbeat or keepalived) where one IP address (the virtual IP address) can be shared by more than one host.

    BTW, anyone got any feedback from Hetzner?
  12. toodles

    toodles New Member

    The organisation I work for has been in contact Hetzner about the issue and as a result of that, I have been contacted by Hetzner. They said that they do not yet have a solution in place and do not yet know what, if anything, will be made available. They did want to reassure my organisation that what they would be able to do no matter what the case, is to give me not only a virtual IP but also a virtual MAC that can be moved between the servers with the IP address. This would allow me to continue my HA setup. The only disadvantage is that which ever server is the master will no longer be accessable via it's normal IP while it has the virtual IP. This is only possible for me because I have a crossover cable connecting the two servers which may not be the case with other customers. I would of course prefer a different solution, but I can live with this one.

  13. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    This is a huge disadvantage for us because we run multiple Xen VMs per physical host. If I understand this right, only the active loadbalancer VM would be accessible while all other VMs on that machine would be cut off... :(
  14. toodles

    toodles New Member

    Ah yes. I see what you mean. Perhaps it would be possible to have an extra nic placed in each of your servers. I know it's extra work, and would involve a short amount of downtime, but then you could use one nic for the loadbalancing IP's and the other as the server's main IP. I think you're charged 15Euro/nic once off. Just an idea. If I understood your situation correctly, it should work, no? I realise that this isn't the ideal solution either, but at least you wouldn't be left stranded.
  15. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    This would cause a lot of local testing (and therefore lost time) before we could use it on a production system. :(
  16. toodles

    toodles New Member

    :-( True. Let's hope Hetzner will come up with a solution and not put it's customers through trouble!!
  17. Dmagnets

    Dmagnets New Member

    I didn't consider using Hetzner when I first posted to this topic, but now having seen their prices, I'm really tempted to!

    I tried to register on their forums to see progress on the IP takeover issue but couldn't understand the German registration form. Can anyone fill me in on what is happening? :)
  18. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    No news so far. They're thinking about a solution, but haven't come up with anything yet.
  19. cgick

    cgick New Member

    hi folks,

    we are located in rz 6 which still allows some subnets to be used by two machines on virtual interfaces. our latest subnet which we registered though doesn't route to both machines any more.

    did you get any feedback from hetzner? the support simply told me via e-mail that ha-solutions aren't supported any more and theres no alternative.

    i read that virtual mac-addresses could do the job? maybe we could even fake the mac by the active machine to bypass that check. did anyone of you guys get information obout alternatives?

    best regards,
  20. falko

    falko Super Moderator ISPConfig Developer

    Haven't heard anything back from Hetzner. I'm really hoping they don't touch existing HA setups. If they do, we will leave...

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