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  #1  
Old 18th April 2009, 11:49
manarak manarak is offline
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Default Newbie with ISP config - Pre-Install Questions

Hello All,

I am a newbie with ISP config - if you can answer a few questions please...

I already own a server that has been running for over 2 years on Fedora and Plesk, but Plesk's new licensing scheme is rubbish.

I want to install a new server and I identified ISP Config as the most advanced Server Management Panel for my needs.

Server Hardware:
AMD Quad, 4 GB RAM, 2x 320GB hot swap HDDs on Raid 1

I plan to install Cent OS 5 (because of the long support cycles) and a classic LAMP.

Question 1:
should I go with ISP Config 2 or 3 ?

Question 2:
I planned the following partitioning, is that ok for CentOS 5 / ISP Config:
100 MB boot
5 GB root
1 GB /tmp
100 GB /home
15 GB /usr
30 GB /var
the rest on /opt

Question 3:
are there other things, or stumbling blocks I should consider before proceeding with CentOS/ISPConfig?


Thank you for your help.
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  #2  
Old 19th April 2009, 04:51
_X_ _X_ is offline
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Q1: http://howtoforge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31925

Q3: Consider using Debian as ISPConfig is best optimized for Debian and its derivates as Ubuntu (8.04 LTS is personal recommendation)
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  #3  
Old 19th April 2009, 10:51
manarak manarak is offline
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Many thanks for the link and your observation about Debian, Mr. X

I had 2 reasons to prefer CentOS over Debian.


1- The first reason are the support cycles.
CentOS guarantees a minimum of 5 years between the release and EOL, while for Debian this can vary.
Sarge for example, lasted less than 3 years, which is definitely too short for my taste.

But then, I don't know how easy it is to upgrade Debian?
What did it take to migrate from Sarge to Etch or from Woody to Etch?
Or from Etch to Lenny?

My server is in a datacenter, so I would like to avoid having to put CDs in the tray and stuff like that.
The migration should also be fairly quick and easy so that I can avoid interrupting the service for too long.

In any situation, the easiest is still not to be forced to migrate.


2- Availability of help
Sometimes I see myself confronted with rare errors I never have seen before, or I need to achieve something on the server which I have never done before.

In those cases, an internet search usually helps, and if I am lucky, the needed commands are also described.

I had a Debian installation before, and must say only about half of those internet hints really work on Debian.
Most of them are written for RHEL, and since CentOS has the same structure as RHEL, all this help fpr RHEL can be used directly on CentOS too.
The same is true for Fedora, I had a Fedora installation for testing, and it was quite nice to be able to use all that massive knowledge that's available.

When I had Debian, I often had the error "command not found" "file not found" etc. because it is quite different from RHEL.
Finding an equivalent on Debian can be quite frustrating, because there simply is less material available on the internet.

Then the userbase of Debian can be a little snotty at times.
Especially a large group of german server admins whose opinion is "if you don't know how to do it, you are not worthy".
They like "things done right by the right people" and will not always help you (even I am a native german speaker).
The culture is quite different from the english community which tries to get things done. But that's why the german debianites are better at security.



So... it is apparent I *would like* to stick with CentOS, but then I have no idea what kind of trouble I will be in because of doing so?

On the box of ISPConfig it says CentOS 5 is supported.

Could you please explain what kind of problems I could have by going the CentOS route?

Last edited by manarak; 19th April 2009 at 11:04.
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  #4  
Old 19th April 2009, 17:01
falko falko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manarak View Post
But then, I don't know how easy it is to upgrade Debian?
What did it take to migrate from Sarge to Etch or from Woody to Etch?
Or from Etch to Lenny?
http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-upg...o-debian-lenny


Quote:
Originally Posted by manarak View Post
I had a Debian installation before, and must say only about half of those internet hints really work on Debian.
Most of them are written for RHEL, and since CentOS has the same structure as RHEL, all this help fpr RHEL can be used directly on CentOS too.
The same is true for Fedora, I had a Fedora installation for testing, and it was quite nice to be able to use all that massive knowledge that's available.
In my experience it's exactly the opposite - most documents seem to be written for Debian and its derivatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manarak View Post
Then the userbase of Debian can be a little snotty at times.
Especially a large group of german server admins whose opinion is "if you don't know how to do it, you are not worthy".
They like "things done right by the right people" and will not always help you (even I am a native german speaker).
I know what you mean, but I don't think that has anything to do with Debian. Just ignore stupid comments or use forums that try help everyone with respect and in a friendly manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manarak View Post
Could you please explain what kind of problems I could have by going the CentOS route?
Normally there shouldn't be any problems, but we're testing mainly on Debian, so it's possible that if we change code or add new features, the changes don't work as expected on CentOS.
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  #5  
Old 21st April 2009, 17:43
manarak manarak is offline
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damn you! :-) LOL
now I am all undecisive...

it is funny that your opinion on availability of help is exactly opposite to mine!
hm.
last time I looked was 3 years ago, I must admit.

the debian upgrade looked easy enough.
-> do you know where I can find a roadmap for the debian project? I looked on their site, but didn't find anything.


I guess that since I plan to use ISPconfig, I should use Debian too.
I'll head to the bookstore and buy one of those heavy Debian bibles.

I just ordered the server hardware.
It will be here next monday at latest.
Quote:
Supermicro Chassis SC811T-300B
Supermicro Mainboard H8SMI-2
AMD Opteron Quad Core 1354 2.2 GHz
4096 MB ECC DDR2 667-RAM ATP (4x 1024 MB)
2x 320 GB SATA II WD Raid Edition III
Supermicro Risercard PCI-Express H8SMI-2
3Ware 9650 2x SATA (0,1)
Slim CD-ROM

about ISPConfig 2 vs. ISPConfig 3:
I think I understood the current differences between the two.
I think I'll go with ver. 3, since ISPConfig 3 will be developed further and receive new features.

BTW, does the partitioning in my first post look good?

Thank you very much for your help.
Be ready for more stupid questions as I advance in my project :-)

Last edited by manarak; 21st April 2009 at 17:53.
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  #6  
Old 21st April 2009, 17:53
tebokkel tebokkel is offline
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Re: partitioning.

As all sizes are way bigger than needed (ISPconfig uses hardly anything), do what you need for other purposes.

My reality has changed from sizing a lot of fine-grained partitions exactly to (about):
1 large partition for /, including usr, opt, hopefully boot and possibly also tmp (depending on use).
1 large(r) partition for /home, depending on use for the box.
1 partition for /var, depending on needs, but almost always seems to small.. ;-)
Perhaps a partition for /var/www.

No more, it's not worth the hassle IMHO, although LVM and ZFS are changing this (again).

BTW: it's a fun thing to mount /home, perhaps /var/www, but especially /tmp noexec.. a lot of scripts and updates stop working, but it makes your system a whole lot more resilient to cr/hackers.

Paul
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  #7  
Old 21st April 2009, 18:12
manarak manarak is offline
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ok, thanks for the info!

I got some connecting questions though:

- what are standard locations for logs and mail queues on ISPConfig & Debian ?
I got some high traffic sites on which I need to keep an eye on some things.


Yes, for security, my current install has /tmp mounted with noexec nosuid.

but not /home!
why would I do that, I want my scripts to work.

PHP-upload function points to /tmp
Uploads are all only pics, so what I do is resize them by 1% before moving them to another directory.
Have you already seen a resized rootkit? it is not pretty! LOL

I also do have mod_security active, which does a good job in adding a security layer, mainly against SQL injections.
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manarak View Post

I think I'll go with ver. 3, since ISPConfig 3 will be developed further and receive new features.
Both versions are developed independently and will receive patches in the future as far as I understand what developers are declaring.

Basically: ISPConfig 3 is more suited for servers with many virtual web sites while ISPConfig 2 is good for server that will host no more than 10 web sites.
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  #9  
Old 21st April 2009, 18:21
manarak manarak is offline
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thanks, I already have over 25 sites, ISPConfig 3 it will be then
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  #10  
Old 28th April 2009, 21:28
manarak manarak is offline
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The server's still not here.

I checked Amazon for current Debian books in english focused on webservers.
Disturbingly, I found none.


So I ordered a german book that is advertised as being up to date for Etch and Sarge: "Linux-Server mit Debian GNU/Linux" by Eric Amberg
Looks good - waiting on the server to see how it will prove itself.

P.S.
as soon as the server is here, I'll go ahead with
http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-se...nny-ispconfig3

Last edited by manarak; 28th April 2009 at 22:41.
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